The Podcast · 17 August 2026 · 53 min
I Had to Stop Abandoning Myself | Claira J on Mother Wounds, Self-Worth & Finding Your Voice
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Some of our deepest wounds don't come from dramatic moments—they come from the quiet absence of feeling truly seen.
In this deeply honest conversation, Claira J shares how growing up longing for emotional connection with her mother shaped the way she viewed herself, her relationships, and her worth. For years she searched for validation outside herself, believing she had to earn love by becoming who everyone else needed her to be.
As a performer, singer, and vocal coach, Jay eventually discovered that finding her voice wasn't just about standing on stage—it was about learning to trust herself, stop self-abandoning, and choose herself in the smallest everyday moments.
This conversation explores what happens when we stop waiting for someone else to give us the love we've always needed.
If you've ever struggled with people-pleasing, questioned your worth, or felt caught between who you are and who others expected you to be, you'll find yourself in this conversation.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
Mother wounds and their lasting impact
Self-abandonment and people-pleasing
Learning to trust your own voice
Why validation from others never truly heals us
Choosing yourself without guilt
Healing through curiosity, compassion, and self-awareness
Finding freedom from old relationship patterns
Sometimes healing doesn't begin when someone finally understands us.
Sometimes it begins when we finally understand ourselves.
Read the full transcript
I actually think I went a little bit too far, Debbie, because I'd been almost conditioned to have to keep trying to prove myself. Please see me, please love me, please accept me, please validate me, why won't you, why won't you, can you see what I mean? There's this desperation and this need to be seen and loved and heard and accepted. And so how that played out in my life and in particular, let's talk about relationships. Oh my God, oh my Lord, I just gave, I gave so much of myself and then I would push for so much in relationships with men. And again, I was just constantly self-abandoning.
So that person would choose me. So powerful. The fact that this wound from a little girl from your mother, one of many relationships can be so profound and so subconscious, you don't even know it's there. And it's just, pick me, look at me, tell me I'm good enough. And when we go into relationships like that, our expectations of the person are so great and often unsaid on what we want from them because they're subconscious. And so when we go in with these expectations, I don't know if this is the same with you, but certainly in my life, hi, I'm Debbie Thompson
and this is The Stone in My Shoe. Like a stone in your shoe, we all carry things that quietly shape the way we walk through life. Through honest conversations and powerful stories, we discover the wisdom that helps us understand ourselves and walk a little more freely. And today's guest is Claira Jay or Jay, welcome. She's a singer, performer, recording artist, voiceover artist and vocal coach with more than 20 years in the Australian entertainment industry. She's appeared in television shows, including Neighbours and Rebel Wilson's Bogan Pride and worked across national advertising campaigns. And today she coaches singers, actors and speakers,
helping them develop not only their own voice and performance, but the confidence and presence to truly own who they are. Based in Melbourne, Jay continues to perform, coach and create. And I'm so grateful she's here today to share her story. Welcome Jay. Hello, Debbie, so nice to see you. Yes, it's so nice to see you. And I love this because I don't know many of you, but I'm travelling around Australia in a caravan and this is not what my caravan looks like. But modern technology is amazing and we can connect from Ningaloo Reef in Western Australia to Melbourne. Amazing. So before we get into anything, just I just want to ground this for the woman who's listening. As she listens to your story today,
what do you hope she quietly begins to recognise about herself? Perhaps that she is not alone in her journey with herself and with her mum and with her family and that we all have a similar story when we start to open up and share it or we all have a story. Yeah. A variation, hey. Yeah, very much. Of a theme. Thank you for sharing that, Jay. And we will come back to that because I think not alone is such a powerful thing because so often when we're unraveling a story, we feel so alone. And I'm hoping through your story, people will realise that there's so much support
in so many different ways. Yeah, absolutely. Before we get into the stone, I just want to find out a little bit more about you, Jay. And what is the most important thing to you in this season of your life? Ooh, what a great question. Most important thing to me in this season of my life is truly owning myself, like really trusting myself, trusting my voice, trusting my decision making, not self-abandoning anymore as well. That's something that was a huge, has been a huge theme throughout my life is that I continued to put others in front of myself, their needs in front of my own. And I would end up being very upset about that
or confused as to why I wasn't getting what I needed. And that's because I was literally letting like self-abandoning myself over and over again. So yeah, that seems to be where I'm currently at is really trusting in me, trusting in my needs, my decision making and really using my voice at the end of the day as well. That sounds really powerful. This trust of knowing who you are and not just knowing who you are and trusting it, but actually taking the power to take it back and put the power inside of yourself rather than giving it to other people. So it does, it feels like you're in a very powerful part of your journey. Definitely feels like it right now. I'm hopeful. Yeah, I feel the most grounded that I feel like I've ever been because I feel that I know myself
more now than ever before. Yeah. And I think with that deep knowing comes a steep trust and then the power comes from there. Beautiful. So let's go back and let's talk about the stone in your shoe. What story would you like to share today? And if you had to name the stone, what would the stone be called? So the stone in my shoe throughout my life has been the relationship with my mother, with my mum. And remind me of what you just asked me as well. So if you had to name the stone, but I think you've done that because you've said it's your relationship with your mum. Cause sometimes it's quite nice to,
and you can never really name something cause there's so many parts to it. But just so we've got something to tether on to and now we're going to see all the, because things are complicated, things are dynamic. And yeah, so I'd love to start on that, your relationship with your mum. Perhaps we could start at the beginning when you were little and just, let's see what evolves when you tell your story. Yeah. So it's an interesting one when you start to look back and reflect on your past life because they are memories and maybe sometimes they might not always be accurate because it was just maybe what I was feeling in a particular moment. But if I can go back, I recall feeling
as a young child, I thought everything was fine. I thought everything was great and happy. I was in a family of six. I've got three brothers, both my parents. They're both still together now. I recall having a relatively happy and harmonious childhood from what I can remember. I remember being really outgoing. I was involved in absolutely everything I could possibly be involved in as a kid. I was singing from a very young age, always performing, always putting on shows or that sort of thing. I was very heavily involved in the church as well. So my family, my mom and dad brought us up in the Salvation Army church. And I remember going to church.
I think it was, I was always there around about three or four times a week because we had our Sunday sessions. We had band rehearsals during the week, choir rehearsals, youth group. There was so much going on. I remember things were very active. And then I also recall having, yeah, I was just, I was quite busy. And then I was very active outside of my school as well. So I was involved in lots of like dancing lessons and had lots of shows that I was involved in. And my mom was really present for me there in that she would make all of my costumes. I remember her always sitting at the sewing machine making things for me. And she was the one who was doing the cooking
and the cleaning and the looking after three boys and me. So four children really holding a household together. And my father wasn't necessarily as present. I don't ever really remember him being active in my life, helping out with things. He was there and then he would go and he came and he went and he was very much involved in his own life in church and in the band. He was playing in a church band which really took over his life actually. So when I think about that, I think, wow, what a woman. Like now this is me going, wow, what a woman. You did so much for all of us. But at the core of it, it's almost like
my parents were there and they were doing but in terms of a need being met, like a deeper need of presence, a deeper need of love, of acceptance, of understanding me, of being there when I maybe really needed it. I may be talking and maybe more in my teenage years when I started to need maybe more emotional support. That wasn't there. That wasn't present. And as I went through high school and then once I went into my university days, I just remember there being a constant battle.
It was a battle between my mom and I. We were chalk and cheese. I remember saying to her once, I must have been in year 12 and I remember saying, if you were at school with me, we wouldn't even be friends. We would have nothing in common. You can't even have a conversation with me. You can't support me. It was so challenging. I felt like I was always in a battle and I just didn't know how to win that battle or to get my needs met. And if I can get a little bit more specific, there was multiple things that happened here. Whenever it came to relationships
with say boys or men or questioning about how to relate, my mom didn't want to know anything about it. She didn't want to know what I was up to because she was so afraid that whatever I was doing, it was going to hurt her. And I found that incredibly difficult because there were multiple times in my life that I needed a woman that I could trust, a woman that I could look up to, a woman that had been through life that I could really just talk to, that I could feel safe with and that I could have someone to bounce off as I was learning and growing in the world. But that wasn't there for me. And yeah, it was especially around relationships.
I also remember when my period came along as well and that was a really confusing time for me. I didn't know what was happening to my body. I don't recall anyone ever telling me that it was going to happen. I remember on the day that it happened, I was shoved some pads and just get on with it kind of thing. And there was something on home and away. I remember Kate Richie was in her character and she got a period on the show. And I remember her parents bringing her flowers and really celebrating that time of her life. And then when my period came along and that didn't happen for me, I was like, well, what does that mean? Am I not special? Am I? So I was- Wow, Jay, that's a lot going on.
And I really relate to you because my mom and I have a very similar relationship, chalk and cheese and everything is a battle. So I really feel you. And that's why this conversation is very personal to me because somebody else is going through the same thing. And I just wanted to go back to something that your mom said when you're early twenties, even your teenagers, and there's so much turmoil, there's so much understanding about yourself in the world and having this anchor of this wise woman who's been through it to support with something that we all want that can ground us and hold us and keep us safe. And yet it's not available to all of us. And one thing your mom said was, I don't want to hear because I was it, I can't deal with it.
Or what were the words she used? I don't want it, I don't want it to hurt me. I don't want whatever you tell me to hurt me. And that was confusing because I didn't understand what that meant at the time. Yeah. And that is a really hard thing because it's like, I am so hurt. I'm hurting. I need the help and you don't want to. And you're the mom who's supposed to hold me, hold space for me, protect me, all the things that I expected. And that wasn't there. So if you look back to that teenage girl and that young adult, what were you really longing for that your mom couldn't give you? I wanted someone to be able to,
first of all, just hear me because we all just want to be seen, heard, loved, cared for. I think I really just wanted to save space to be able to unravel or to ask questions. I really wanted to be seen and maybe just understood, understood. Yeah. And have someone that I could share things with. Again, Debbie, I recall back in my teenage, when I was at high school, I remember I had friends that would go out for coffee with their mom and they're like, I'm going out for coffee with mom. I'm going shopping with mom.
I'm doing this with mom and I was like, oh God, I could never even do that with my mom. That's not even an option. My mom used to say to me, mothers and daughters cannot be friends. So I grew up with that. I grew up with that in my mind being I'm not allowed to be a friend with my mom. So she put the wall up in front of me. She really blocked that relationship with me. She found so incredibly difficult. And so I outsourced. I asked, can I just ask you a question there? So your mom said we can't be friends and your other friends, not everybody, but some were going out and having this really deep to be seen understood a safe place and you didn't have this. What did you feel about yourself
at that point that this wasn't happening for you? Was there anything that you not a blamed on yourself? That's the wrong word, but created the story about yourself that this wasn't happening. I don't think it was conscious, but now when I think about it, it was that I am not enough or I'm too much. I'm too much or... And then not lovable. Perhaps I'm just, I'm not what you want or I'm not what you need. And as a child to find their way in the world with the lens of that I'm too much or I'm not enough,
I'm not lovable, that has to, as you said, it's not even conscious, it's so subconscious that it spills out to other relationships and how you see the world. Not just how you see the world, but how you experience the world. So can you just tell me a bit more about how you saw and experienced the world based on this set of glasses that you were wearing about yourself? Yeah, great question. So I believe again, the transition from where I was in primary school into high school into my university days when I left home and went away for three years. I was at drama school in Western Australia for three years to pulling away from the church. It was just a constant unraveling of conditioning
of how I thought I saw the world to then opening up my eyes to, oh, this is what the world actually is. And what I've been experiencing was inside a cage basically. That's how it felt. So I began when I left for drama school to, I was probably even before that. It was maybe when I was in year 12, I started to rebel, which turned into a, I was pretty, pretty out there. I was pretty wild. I was going out there and drinking at an early age. And I started, I believe I haven't, you had my first sexual interaction when I was 18 and from there, it was just a self-exploration as a young adult.
When I was in university, I was allowed to swear. I wasn't allowed to swear when I was at home. You know, I get the bloody wooden spoon, I get a snack. So for your mum, seeing this child that she could no longer control, that you literally broke the cage down and you were flying and this is who I am. And I don't care if I'm too much. And for your mum who was about, I don't know, but this, I can't deal with this because it doesn't feel safe for me. Obviously safety and control were really important. So this must have been, was it even a bigger chasm with your mum and you when you went through this rebellious, basically breaking out of your cage
and going, this is who I am? How did that relationship, how did the relationship go with that? Terrible. There was a lot of screaming matches. There was a lot of disagreements, a lot of yelling. It just, again, as I recall, butting head. Everything was like, we can't even be in the same room without butting head. And then when I really was owning myself as an actor and as a performer in musical theater and film and television, all of these things where I was able to be fully expressed. Fully, even though I was in playing characters, this was my way of expression using my voice. And wow, that just created an even bigger rift between us because my mum and my dad, they were,
and they've told me that they did this on purpose. They restricted their love and praise of me. They wouldn't openly celebrate me and my performances or my achievements. They said that they did that on purpose because they didn't want me to get a big head about what I was doing. They also, mum really found it difficult to accept my career path because, again, she just said, and this has all come out in days gone by in the past numerous few years. She said, I just, I was so scared for you. I was so worried for you because I didn't want you to be viewed
by the male voyeuristic eye. And I didn't want you to be seen or sexualized the way that actors and performers can be these days. And I just didn't want my daughter to go through that. And it was all just fear. It was just fear-based stuff. And I'm thinking, fuck, I am just, I'm just, this is my creativity. This is my expression in the world. This is just acting. How can I not be accepted for being the fullest expression of myself? And gosh, Jay, thank you so much for sharing that because since then, your parents, you've had this conversation, but at the time when you were fully expressing yourself
being who you were and you were getting, you weren't getting the praise or the love or the acceptance from your parents, how did that feel for you? And how did you deal with that? It was so devastatingly challenging. So I felt unloved. I felt unwanted. I felt unseen. I just felt unaccepted. I would push and try to get them to see me. Please just see me. Please just accept me for who I am. So there was a lot of pushing and almost demanding that I deserve this,
that I need this, which didn't often come back my way. It did in little bits, right? Sometimes it did, but it wasn't consistent. So again, it was very confusing. And I ended up outsourcing to other, in particular, women. So again, I believe this wasn't even conscious at the time. This is just my subconscious self-working. But I ended up developing these amazing relationships and with women who were 20 or 30 years older than me. And they could have been mothers of some of my friends or other women that I just met on my journey. And I got what I needed in those dynamics.
And what did they give you? Yeah, they provided me with a safe space just to share myself, my truth, just share my life and be a soundboard for me, a place where I could be heard. I remember having conversations with particular women where they would sit and they would just listen. They wouldn't challenge me. They wouldn't walk away or tell me that I was upsetting them, which is all I knew. They would sit and they would give me a little bit of piece of advice. And I was like, wow, I've never had that before. I've never received that from anyone. And it felt like women sharing their wisdom with me. And I started to understand that other women
that were out there were not like my mom. And then I got to see that there was a different picture playing out here. So that different picture playing out, how did that change how you saw yourself and how you interacted and saw the world? How did that change how I saw myself? I think I eventually just started to see that I wasn't a problem and that I was actually very normal. I was very, it was very normal just to be yourself. It was very normal just to be fully expressed and to have dreams and goals and desires.
And yeah, I don't know. I think it just made me feel, I think I just realised that there was nothing wrong with me if I can put it into all of words. Yeah, and that you're lovable. You're not too much. You're not too little. Your voice and your expression and your wings are perfectly okay. They're just not seen by somebody else. Perhaps they don't like that bird. That bird is too much for them, too colourful. And so did that change your confidence in how you went out into the world? And because I think so much of it is I'm worthy, I'm lovable, I'm good enough. And then this courage and confidence comes up. So how did that express itself in the world for you? I actually think I went a little bit too far, Debbie,
because I'd been almost conditioned to have to keep trying to prove myself. Please see me. Please love me. Please accept me. Please validate me. Why won't you, why won't you? Can you see what I mean? There's this desperation and this need to be seen and loved and heard and accepted. And so how that played out in my life and in particular, let's talk about relationships. Oh my God. I just gave, I gave so much of myself and then I would push for so much in relationships with men. And again, I was just constantly self-abandoning. So that person would choose me.
So powerful. The fact that this wound from a little girl from your mother, one of many relationships can be so profound and so subconscious, you don't even know it's there. And it's just pick me, look at me, tell me I'm good enough. And when we go into relationships like that, our expectations of the person are so great and often unsaid on what we want from them because they're subconscious. And so when we go in with these expectations, I don't know if this is the same with you, but certainly in my life is you feel let down because your expectations weren't met. And their expectations from this relationship for your mother that this person that you're having a relationship
cannot mend, it has to be mended by you. And so that seems like another stone as well and must have been so confusing for you because you're trying so hard, you're working so hard to be liked and loved and abandoning yourself to be and yet it doesn't come back to you. How did that make you feel and how did that pay out in your life? What's really only just been in the last, I would say three to four years that things have actually started to shift. And that has happened because, not because of my mom is my mom and she is doing her, but because of me
because I had to come to a point in my life where I had to choose me. It's not up to anyone else to love me, it's up to me and love looks like not just taking care of oneself or putting good food in the body or that self love is in the micro moments of not self abandoning yourself, of choosing your needs over someone else's. That's how this has played out for me. It's been the greatest gift that I was ever given. I can say that now, but back then it was very challenging
but in terms of my actual development as a woman and who I've been able to become, I only have gratitude for all of this because perhaps I wouldn't have seen it to the depth that I do now if I hadn't have been on this journey. But yeah, it's really had to make me understand unattachment. So unattaching from outcomes, unattaching from a need for someone else to do, be, say something for me to feel safe. I don't need anyone else to do that for me because I've got me. And when you outsource that to somebody else, you lose your power.
And one thing we do have is a power to choose, the power to make a choice in every moment. You said the micro moments and to give that away is it's self abandonment, isn't it? Just wanted to go back. You said the last few years is when you've started to do this deep work because this is the transformation. Was there a moment in time when you went enough or was it a series of steps that happened to this, to looking inwards and doing this transformation? Yeah, look, I've been on the personal development journey realistically from around about, oh, how would say, I started, I got my first Louise Hay book when I was in, it was 2007. I didn't really understand it at the time
but between 2007, 2019 to end of 2018 started 2019, I actually had a serious mental and physical breakdown where I almost ended my life. And that was like the big, my dark night of the soul. And that was the big crux of my own personal development journey, really starting and deepening from there. But when I think about the relationship between my parents and in particular my mom and I, it was I would say four years ago and I can't remember the exact, the thing that happened but I remember it was a bang, no more, this is it.
I am done with this. I am choosing to be out of this dynamic. I am choosing different. There is no way that this is going to ever continue past this point. And it was a time where there were six months of my life where no one spoke to me from my family. I, everyone just pulled, like it was just closing off and I didn't hear a peep for six months. And I was like, I don't have a family. I have no idea where anyone is. No one's picked up the phone. My brother's never checked on me. If this was a thing that happened between my parents and I or my mom and I, but no one checked on me and I went, you know what?
Doesn't matter because I've got me. I've got me in this. And I had to develop that relationship with myself. That is incredibly powerful but also the fact that it had to be so powerful that you were literally on your own. One of the things you wanted was a safe space to be loved and seeing the core things that most of us humans want and to have that taken away. It's almost like you've been thrown out at sea and you're either going to sink or swim. Before we go into that, because that's an incredibly powerful moment. It just shows how powerful you are, Jay, to be able to take that and go, it's up to me. But the question before that, which I've actually just forgotten
because ADHD and I didn't write it down. So I will come back to it. It was a really good question. It was a really good question, but I've forgotten it, but it will come back. But let's go back to that moment where you're abandoned and I know what it was. What was your stone in your shoe trying to tell you before this point of total abandonment that you just weren't perhaps seeing or listening or weren't able to see or listen? Let me just sit with that, Debbie. What was I not seeing?
The thing that keeps coming up for me is just that needing something outside of myself to be okay. Yeah, still thinking that there was something outside of me that I needed. Yeah, that's what I got. I got, Jay, you've got everything inside of you. Everything, you're so powerful. Just look at that. Which is juicing that you say that, Deb, because I'm just sitting with what you just said then. If my mum had said that to me one day, you've got everything inside of you. That's all you need, my darling.
Even something that small would have transferred, I can imagine it would have shifted my perception even of myself or of a dynamic. Never once were those words or anything like that even said. And to this day, my mum still, she says to me, she says, I just don't have the words. I can't give you what you need. And that's okay. That's okay. I'm in full acceptance of that now. But when I was growing up and I didn't understand the world or how things work, that was very confusing to me. And I do know that is such an important part of how our relationships work. It's not just from our parents.
It could be from our siblings, our friends, our partner. It's what we need and they just can't give it because the lens to which your mum saw the world. And I know you referred back to fear. A lot of, so her lens is about, I need to protect you, Jay. This is too much for me. I can't protect you. You're flying, you're way too high for me. I need to tether you back down. And I don't want to be tethered. I just want to be thrown to say, I've got everything. And so you, it's just such a beautiful story of this acceptance of I can do this all myself. How do you see your mum differently now? And how did your transformation transform how you saw and accepted your mum?
Great question. I'm going, do you mind if I share a little bit of a story as to when that all started to happen? And I have, I recall sharing this with you when we caught up a few weeks ago as well. And it was a moment where I had invited my parents to come over. This was after about six months of abandonment break. And I invited them to come into my home and I just sat on the floor and I got my parents to sit on the couch. And I said, you need to talk to me about what you're feeling and how this has played out for you and how I've affected you so much that we're still in this dynamic. And what ended up happening was that my mum actually shared with me very vulnerably
her truth and the reasons as to why she has been the way she's been with me. And she shared with me about her growing up, her past, the relationship with her father that was so incredibly challenging. My grandmother, her mother got polio when she was I believe 28 years old and lost all of her capabilities in life. And so my mum's relationship with her mum completely changed when she was very young and she didn't get what she needed in those moments as well. She also shared with me around what happened with her and my father and how they, this is publicly I'm going to share this
because it's actually not something that I need to keep as a secret in my family. My parents actually got pregnant very young out of wedlock and my mum had to have an abortion when she was I believe 16 years old. This is something I never knew. The deep pain, the pain that she would have gone through being out of wedlock, 16 years old, first time she'd ever had sex with my father, which is amazing that this even happened. And this is what happened and she had to share that with her mum and then her mum had to help her through that and then they were in the church and this was something how sinful. So she lived with that her entire life and that was what she wanted to protect me from.
She just wanted to protect me. I never want my daughter to have to go through the experience that I went through. Now it's interesting because when I think about this now as an adult and I think, how would I have done this with my daughter? Who I am today would be, obviously I would create a safe space and there'd be conversation and I would try to support her through that and talk her through that. But I don't believe my mum, she didn't have the capabilities. She didn't have the dialogue. She didn't have the understanding of how to do that with me. And then, yeah, during that conversation, again, that particular night, yeah, she shared a lot of her fears around basically everything. There was a lot of fear that was let out that night and my father as well.
And there was quite a lot of tears and there was a lot of just everything came up to the surface. And as I shared with you to a couple of nights after that, I ended up having a moment in my sleep where I had an entity come into my room. I remember I had a dark entity enter my room and that dark figure crawled up my body and it went all over and I could feel it and I could hear it and it went into my heart and it shook my heart, went like this and I jumped out of bed, covered in sweat, head to toe, just absolutely drenched. And that night, I got Palo Santo and I had to cleanse my room and command this energy
and the spirit out of my room. And I ended up having a medium liquor healer help me clear that energy. But what we actually found out is that she, the energetic healer said, that's your mom's fear. It's left her. It left her. Wow. It left her in that night and it may have, it tried to attach on to me that I was too strong for it because I was so protected. And from that moment, that's a really pivotal moment. And again, I've never shared that publicly. I've never even shared that with my mom. But I know that was the day that things really started to shift because we vulnerability creates connection.
Wow. Yeah. For your mom to be looking back through her lens, right? Her lens of a 16-year-old being pregnant back then, having an abortion, having the church, having all this fear and guilt and shame and carrying this fear at 16 is such a vulnerable age and not having the tools or somebody to help her process it. Of course she's going to see the world through those glasses. I need to protect Jay. I need to protect Jay. So much of what she was doing was through love, her way of showing love. And yet it was quite opposite to what you needed. You needed to go, let me fly, tell me. And isn't that so sad that we take so long
to have these vulnerable, honest conversations with people because once we understand their story and where it's coming from, because it's just a story, it's the lens through which we see the world. And it changes how we interact, how we receive, how we give. And the fact that you did this work because it must have been so lonely when your whole family abandoned you, but you did it. But not only did you do it for you Jay, you did it for your mom. You cleared her fear. You gave her the confidence, the power, the whatever to go, I don't need to own this anymore. And what a gift you gave to your mom. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, Debbie.
I can see that now. When you're in those moments and there's so much fear and shame and hurt and guilt and it's all coming up and the emotions are so big, you can't see it. But from what I've learned is that hard conversations are so incredibly important in all dynamics. And if you can find a way to be regulated, to hold space, to own your truth and also know that two truths can be held at once or all truths can be held at once. Vulnerably speak your truth, own it.
Yeah. That's where the magic happens. That's where those shifts can happen. And I honestly feel like this is something, we're not taught how to do this. This is something that can be learnt, I believe. And I feel is something that all families and all relationships and all friends and all people really should have access to being able to have these kind of conversations because at the end of the day, all we want is all of us to be seen, loved, appreciated and to know that we're not wrong. That my opinion is my opinion and my truth and your opinion is your opinion or truth. And let's find a way to come into balance
and harmony together, even if we disagree. Yeah, and I think that's so important is the fact that you can hold two truths at once. You and your mom both held a truth about your acting. And it's one, her narrative, the way she sees the world and the way you do. And both in her world, that was why she was protecting, she was loving, she was showing you how much she loved you. And that was one truth and then the other truth. And they couldn't be further apart, but both are true. And it's being able to vulnerably see the other person. Why are they seeing the world they are? And then I think so much compassion
for yourself and for the other person. And I think with compassion, there's a huge amount of understanding and able to hold two truths at once instead of being dogmatically stuck in your own. That's powerful. I've only really learned that, I would say in the last few years even, this is just the deeper that I've gone on my own personal development journey, the more relationships that I've been in, the more interesting and challenging friendship dynamics that I've had. I had a very unfortunate situation with a beautiful, one of my best friends only at weeks ago, where I shared something that was my truth and it wasn't received well. And now that friendship has dissipated and it's really, it's so sad.
And I'm so regretful for what I said in the moment, but I've had to sit back and I've had to go, that was my truth in that moment. And this is her truth in this moment as well. So it's really playing out across my life in all different ways, but I think that that's actually the most profound learning that I have had in particular in the last 12 months is that two truths can live at once. Yeah, and that's a big one to get your head around because we think the way we see the world is the truth, but it's one version of what's actually happening. So I just wanted to leave you just a couple more questions before we finish off. How has this journey changed the way you show and receive love in your life?
I love, I love to give love in all different ways. And I, it has definitely not minimized my capacity to love and to share and to give my heart. I show up in every room, every gig that I do, every relationship, every conversation with my heart wide open, Deb. I just do, this is how I live in the world. This hasn't prevented me or made me think, oh, I better not give too much, otherwise people might steal my love. I feel more fully expressed than I probably ever have been. I show up in my ways of my, one of my love languages is of giving service, acts of service and words of affirmation.
I love words of affirmation because it was something that I was never really given. I didn't get a lot of the dialogue and I laugh at myself sometimes. I'm that person that shows up on Instagram. I'm such a cheerleader for people. I'm like, yes, God, I love supporting people. I love sharing, like making them feel seen, making people feel seen, heard and loved because it was part of my journey that I didn't necessarily have. And then in terms of receding, I first and foremost, I just top my own cup up every day. And if someone doesn't have the capacity to love me in the way that I need to, it's okay. I can still be challenged by it, but it's okay. I come into a lot more deep acceptance of it now. This has really been shown
in my past romantic relationship in that there were still parts there where I just wanted a little bit more, maybe probably more verbal because that's my history, my past, but I think it's just more acceptance stuff. It's just like, you can't control other people. You just have to fill up your own cup first and whatever someone has the capacity for with you, then that's all they have the capacity for and it's not up to you to judge them. It's up to you to accept them. That's incredibly empowering because it takes away this need to control. It takes away its flow because when you control, you have boxes and everything has to be in a certain way. It almost produces this beautiful energy.
Almost you're flying through life and whoever passes you by, if you're on the same journey and we can connect beautiful, but without expectations, I don't think we're that often disappointed. I think we're often disappointed when we have expectations on how things and how people should evolve and we can't control other people. We can control, not control, because that's the wrong word, but we can make decisions every day for ourselves. We can fill up our cups. We can love ourselves. We can do the work and then show up because you didn't just show up in the world. This was a painful journey and I really felt it at times and how abandoned you were and how scary it must have been. But not only did you transcend that,
but you transcended it for yourself, for your mother and for the rest of your family, other people watching, you're cheerleading other people. Who knows what that one cheerleading you said to that person that they didn't get from their mum or their partner. You don't know the ripple effect of what you're doing. You're just putting your love out there and it is rippling around the world and that is just beautiful. And it came from pain, but it came from looking at that stone, dismantling it. And it wasn't a straightforward easy journey, but you did it. You had the courage and the conviction and the compassion to do it.
And that's amazing. Thanks, Jo. Thanks so much. Yes, no wonder I've ended up as a voice and a performance and artistic mentor and a coach because I really, truly believe that we're all here to be fully expressed. And I just love getting to hold space for people in their fullest expression, especially through voice, especially through creativity, because I feel like that's how the world shifts and changes when we can transmute our energy through creativity. I couldn't agree more. So before we finish, if somebody listening has spent years wishing for a different relationship with perhaps a parent, what would you gently encourage them to become curious about just to start this journey?
Oh, gosh, I was about to say, just get curious. I was like, oh, just get curious. Ask more questions. If you are having a relationship, dynamic, a challenging one, in particularly with a parent, whether it be mother or father, take a step back. See them as they are just another human being. They're just like you. They've still got their own challenges. They still have their own history and their past. And if you're struggling, maybe it might be time to, instead of needing more wanting something from them,
to say, hey, maybe could we sit together? I'd like to get to know you better. Would you be open to sharing a bit more about your life and how you are the way you are and where you got to, where you got to? And just, yeah, ask more questions from a space of regulation and genuine curiosity, not manipulation. Yeah, not trying to emotionally manipulate someone to get what you need, but as information. And this is actually something else, Deb. I've really come to learn now that everything is just information. To say, oh, that's interesting.
Oh, that's some more information over there. Oh, that's interesting, more information. Thank you for coming and adding more to my information bank. Yes, rather than becoming emotionally embroiled in the information is being to sit back and go, that's information, that's interesting. Yeah, and I love your curiosity and from a place of curiosity, not manipulation, a place of regulation is to go and have those honest conversations with the people and have the courage to do it because it's going to be challenging but to have the courage, the curiosity and the compassion. And if you can go away with, you know, I love those three words and I live my life by them. They're just so empowering. Jay, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for being so honest, so vulnerable
and taking us through that story and see you were storyteller but also the deep understanding you've got and how you make the world a better place and how you show up and how you shine and the world is better off for you, so thank you. Thanks, Deb, you too. I'm really grateful to have this conversation with you and thank you for allowing me to share and holding the space for me. And yeah, I think that what you're doing in the world is going to have that big ripple effect as well. Oh, I appreciate that, thank you. And as you're listening today, perhaps there was a moment you recognized something in yourself and if it was there, stay curious because sometimes another woman's story helps us find, finally see our own. Thanks for listening.
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